Anti-smoking law in Michigan?

[Draco1958]

I was going to avoid saying anything in this thread but I have to. All the banter going on and some seem to want to add credibility to their argument with comments of rape, muder and such. Way to go, makes you sound like a little kid stomping his/her feet in a tantrum. Yeah, let's pick on the smokers. Smokine a cig 40 or 50 feet away from you in a park really endangers you. Yet all the pollution in the air that you constantly breath in doesn't do anything harmful to you. WAKE UP!!!! Now I'm not saying smoking isn't bad but it's time the smoker didn't take the brunt of all this BS. If we are gonna ban smoking in public, including parks to save the kiddies. Let's also make a law banning any vehicle that doesn't meet emission standards from being anywhere near a park. After all, if smoke from a cig bothers you in a park where a breeze dissapates the smoke quickly, I'm sure that car with the black exhaust must be a problem. And lets ban cologne, after all when someone wears it like they bathed in it, it makes my throat close up. And no more campfires. After all, that puts carcinogens into the air too. And let's not worry about factories, incineratoprs and things like that. After all, they aren't close to a park. The junk they spew high into the air surely doesn't travel much further than the PARKING LOT. Yeah, right!!! I have noticed in this thread that the antismokers are willing to ignore other factors that cause problems to make their point about smoking being the only problem. And seem to go to weird extremes to make a point. How silly comparing SHS to bangin a monkey or murdering someone. Shame. If I went to sit at a park bench and went to light up and was asked not to, I would put it away. But if I am sitting there smoking when someone walks up and asks me to put it out, nope, walk over to the next bench. If you want me to respect your wish to not light up if you were there first, show the same courtesy and don't sit by me if I am already there. The point I am trying to make is a simple one. Stay with the facts, avoid the theatrics. Making wild statements does not make you come across very well. It makes you sound like a fanatic who knows nothing. It sounds like you are making a joke out of the issue. Smoke dissapates quickly in a breeze. However junk from a smokestack builds up and permeates the air so while you may not see a haze or smell an odor, that doesn't mean it's not there so quit acting like it isn't a factor when it is. I am all for giving a business the choice to be smoking or nonsmoking. That doesn't bother me but to say, gee I don't like your smoke at the park even if you are far away and it has no effect on me does. Yes you have the right to not deal with SHS but be realistic about it. A campfire puts out more smoke and will trail further than a cigarette and can be more harmful. The same with car exhaust and other pollutants.

[bean]

I am not talking about banning smoking... I am talking about getting rid of it in public places like parks where my kids go.... Public sex is banned for the same reason.... health or not, I would not want my kids to think that smoking is a good idea, just like fucking on a playground is not a good idea.... so I would not want either in public. In businesses that allow it, sure, at home or in your car... fine.... Why is your right to smoke more important than my right to not breath your smoke?

It's really sad and pathetic that some people feel the need to be hostile because others don't want to smell like a dirty rotten ashtray or breathe in the putrid stench of smoke, or expose their children to smoke.

[odims_sphere]

I was going to avoid saying anything in this thread but I have to. All the banter going on and some seem to want to add credibility to their argument with comments of rape, muder and such. Way to go, makes you sound like a little kid stomping his/her feet in a tantrum. Yeah, let's pick on the smokers. Smokine a cig 40 or 50 feet away from you in a park really endangers you. Yet all the pollution in the air that you constantly breath in doesn't do anything harmful to you. WAKE UP!!!! Now I'm not saying smoking isn't bad but it's time the smoker didn't take the brunt of all this BS. If we are gonna ban smoking in public, including parks to save the kiddies. Let's also make a law banning any vehicle that doesn't meet emission standards from being anywhere near a park. After all, if smoke from a cig bothers you in a park where a breeze dissapates the smoke quickly, I'm sure that car with the black exhaust must be a problem. And lets ban cologne, after all when someone wears it like they bathed in it, it makes my throat close up. And no more campfires. After all, that puts carcinogens into the air too. And let's not worry about factories, incineratoprs and things like that. After all, they aren't close to a park. The junk they spew high into the air surely doesn't travel much further than the PARKING LOT. Yeah, right!!! I have noticed in this thread that the antismokers are willing to ignore other factors that cause problems to make their point about smoking being the only problem. And seem to go to weird extremes to make a point. How silly comparing SHS to bangin a monkey or murdering someone. Shame. If I went to sit at a park bench and went to light up and was asked not to, I would put it away. But if I am sitting there smoking when someone walks up and asks me to put it out, nope, walk over to the next bench. If you want me to respect your wish to not light up if you were there first, show the same courtesy and don't sit by me if I am already there. The point I am trying to make is a simple one. Stay with the facts, avoid the theatrics. Making wild statements does not make you come across very well. It makes you sound like a fanatic who knows nothing. It sounds like you are making a joke out of the issue. Smoke dissapates quickly in a breeze. However junk from a smokestack builds up and permeates the air so while you may not see a haze or smell an odor, that doesn't mean it's not there so quit acting like it isn't a factor when it is. I am all for giving a business the choice to be smoking or nonsmoking. That doesn't bother me but to say, gee I don't like your smoke at the park even if you are far away and it has no effect on me does. Yes you have the right to not deal with SHS but be realistic about it. A campfire puts out more smoke and will trail further than a cigarette and can be more harmful. The same with car exhaust and other pollutants.

Hrm... The point in making those wild extremes is that i'm pointing out how completely asinine the smokers arguments are. Of course smoking isn't the same as raping a monkey on a park bench you've missed the point completely which makes you sound like the fanatic who knows nothing. I've provided credible links to MANY sources disproving every single argument put fourth by the non smokers ie, "smoking is not bad for you", or "no one ever died from second hand smoke" you whine and cry that your rights are being violated by restricting where you can smoke. of course you feel that way, smoking is something you want to do. You don't see banning murder as a violation of rights because you don't want to murder.

The fact remains that your smoking is putting something there that wasn't there before and is proven to have negative impact on the people around it. it doesn't matter if factories are worse, it doesn't matter if a bus with a blown head gasket it worse, cancer is still cancer. It's PROVEN second hand smoke increases a persons risk for it.

No one is trying to eliminate smoking completely, just where you can do it. There will be PLENTY of places you can smoke.

If the wild analogies are to difficult for you, here's a milder one: There are specific areas where you can drive your car, roads, parking lots etc. You cannot drive your car on sidewalks, people's back yards, or public parks. Why is that? Why are they violating my right to drive? The answer is, they're not. they're restricting it for the greater good. Are factories bad? yes, that's why they cannot be built in residential areas, they're restricting where for the greater good. there is also city codes and regulations for how high their smoke stacks have to be. There is regulations on how much pollution can be put out in parts per million.

Factories must exist, hell your precious cigarettes are even made in them, but there is regulations in place to minimize the negative effects on the general public. That's exactly whats happening with this smoking ban, it's an attempt to minimize the negative effects on the general population, it has nothing to do with "Big Brother" trying to suppress your rights. Stop being so narrow minded and selfish.

[boshy]

Eh--to which Constitutional right are you referring?

my bad. i ment declaration of independance. pursuit of happiness.

[Rev.Reverence]

my bad. i ment declaration of independance. pursuit of happiness.

& I said that...I believe it was ignored...

[Msterbeau]

I'd just like to interject this: Why the fuck do smokers toss their butts out the window of their cars? You have an ash tray. Use it. You have the right to smoke, not to litter.

[Rev.Reverence]

I'd just like to interject this: Why the fuck do smokers toss their butts out the window of their cars? You have an ash tray. Use it. You have the right to smoke, not to litter.

..one bad habit does not deserve another...

[Morbid Side]

I'd just like to interject this: Why the fuck do smokers toss their butts out the window of their cars? You have an ash tray. Use it. You have the right to smoke, not to litter.

Good point not only is it littering but can be hazardous to fires.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

actually...the facts support Mr. Hitt...there are few sources that can even name one person killed by SHS, much less three....

There are health problems short of death that arise as a result of smoking, you know.

Someone above asked where this has worked. Three places I know of from what limited reading I've done: NYC, Paris and the entire nation of Ireland. In all three places, bar and restaurant owners found that, after an initial 3-6 week hit, they actually had more business than before the ban. Generally, for every 4 patrons they lost, they gained 5 new ones.

I should also point out that (yes, some govt. agency actually worked this out) the cessation of all anti-smoking laws and activities would save Social Security without having to change the tax rate. Enough people would die before drawing benefits to float the nonsmokers.

[TitsMcGee]

but unless a magical anti-nicotine drug comes out that takes the drug out of the system completely within a few hours its not going to happen

Oh my dear boy there is that magic pill just works after 3 days, it's called Welbutrine. I was no happy when my doctor put the stressed out crazy girl on an antidepressant where one of the side effects is to not want nicotine

In your home, your car, hey that's your space.

In a bar that chooses to allow it, that's their choice.

In a public park where I take my kids to play, that's our space. I should not be forced to deal with your inability to control your addictions. It's not my fault you have no self control.

disclaimer: "You", and "your" is used in the generic smoker sense, not meant directly toward Der Nister personally.

I'm just throwing this out there since it was mentioned more than a few times. If you're outside how is the smoke really bothering you that much? I mean really look at all the other things that are in the air as it is, especially down here in highly populated areas. I fully respect nonsmokers, I live with my sister her fiance and 3 kids, so my ass goes outside when I want a smoke. I have never had anyone ever come up to me outside and ask me to move and if there is anyone within 10 feet of me I usually ask them if it's bothering them and 90% of the time they say no. Maybe it's just me but I find the "you shouldn't be able to smoke in public outside places" rather weak.

[phee]

It's really sad and pathetic that some people feel the need to be hostile because others don't want to smell like a dirty rotten ashtray or breathe in the putrid stench of smoke, or expose their children to smoke.

Indeed.... that covers a lot.

Health can be argued one way or another....

My kid however, yes education is the key... however I (as well as others who have commented in this thread) am divorced, I have a far too small amount of control over what my kid learns. I don't think it is too much to ask...

[Fin]

Yup...so...if you are rich enough to belong to a Country Club, or lucky enough to belong to a fraternal organization; there is going to be house parties galore! All the little bars will go out of business; the Ma &Pa restaurants; GOOD COFFEE HOUSES...GONE! GONE, gone...What a shame.

Well Fin, some of us in the Tin-Hat-Brigade believe that this is just the first step to THEM trying to "save" us from ourselves...

I understand your concerns, & certainly where rights are being threatened, a stand should be made. As it stands, smoking is not a guaranteed "right," however--whether it should be or not. That was the intention of my orginal post.

As for small bars/clubs going out of business, I certainly understand the concern. However when public bans on smoking were adopted in New York & California, people adapted & businesses survived. It makes sense that smokers wouldn't appreciate such a ban, but experience in Cali & NYC suggests Michigan would land on its feet.

You are a force to be reckoned with, Rev my friend. No worries, mate--tin hats look good on ya.

[odims_sphere]

Oh my dear boy there is that magic pill just works after 3 days, it's called Welbutrine. I was no happy when my doctor put the stressed out crazy girl on an antidepressant where one of the side effects is to not want nicotine

I'm just throwing this out there since it was mentioned more than a few times. If you're outside how is the smoke really bothering you that much? I mean really look at all the other things that are in the air as it is, especially down here in highly populated areas. I fully respect nonsmokers, I live with my sister her fiance and 3 kids, so my ass goes outside when I want a smoke. I have never had anyone ever come up to me outside and ask me to move and if there is anyone within 10 feet of me I usually ask them if it's bothering them and 90% of the time they say no. Maybe it's just me but I find the "you shouldn't be able to smoke in public outside places" rather weak.

in answer to your outside question... yes it bothers me that much. Smokers cannot smell how gawd awful it stinks because they are used to it. It's the same as the crazy cat lady can't smell the overwhelming stench of ammonia due to all the cat piss. Or how Johnnie wears-too-much-cologne can't smell how terrible he reeks either because he's so used to the smell. Or how funeral directors don't smell the stench of rotting corpses. etc...

[Der Nister]

I'd just like to interject this: Why the fuck do smokers toss their butts out the window of their cars? You have an ash tray. Use it. You have the right to smoke, not to litter.

Agreed.

It would be nice if no one threw trash onto our roads and streets and parks and beaches. Finding beer cans and water bottles all over is just as bad.

Are people in this country that ignorant?

[Msterbeau]

Are people in this country that ignorant?

Yes. And that inconsiderate.

[phee]

Agreed.

It would be nice if no one threw trash onto our roads and streets and parks and beaches. Finding beer cans and water bottles all over is just as bad.

Are people in this country that ignorant?

I don't know if it is ignorant at all.... they know they are leaving litter they just don't care.... closer to Marc's comment.... being inconsiderate

And strangly enough... litter solid waste in public, that does suck.... There might be a parallel there with gasious waste in public *ponders*

[Msterbeau]

I don't know if it is ignorant at all.... they know they are leaving litter they just don't care.... closer to Marc's comment.... being inconsiderate

And strangly enough... litter solid waste in public, that does suck.... There might be a parallel there with gasious waste in public *ponders*

New thread!!!! :-)

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

in answer to your outside question... yes it bothers me that much. Smokers cannot smell how gawd awful it stinks because they are used to it. It's the same as the crazy cat lady can't smell the overwhelming stench of ammonia due to all the cat piss. Or how Johnnie wears-too-much-cologne can't smell how terrible he reeks either because he's so used to the smell. Or how funeral directors don't smell the stench of rotting corpses. etc...

I'll tell you what then....Every two weeks I'll buy you a can of Axe that you can shoot straight up your nose, because half the country smells bad because it's either polluted from factories or the fact that most large hillsides along highways in america are actually heaps of trash.

[phee]

I'll tell you what then....Every two weeks I'll buy you a can of Axe that you can shoot straight up your nose, because half the country smells bad because it's either polluted from factories or the fact that most large hillsides along highways in america are actually heaps of trash.

I am not sure how that will help my kids from seeing smokers in the park and getting a bad message.... but Axe does have amusing adds

[Msterbeau]

I find it odd that some people care more about an unborn fetus then living, breathing humans.

[phee]

I find it odd that some people care more about an unborn fetus then living, breathing humans.

indeed

[Rayne]

I find it odd that some people care more about an unborn fetus then living, breathing humans.

Some people have different priorities?

*shrug*

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I am not sure how that will help my kids from seeing smokers in the park and getting a bad message.... but Axe does have amusing adds

well..I mean damn, phee....you talk about them not getting a bad message...shelter them....because there are bad messages everywhere. You don't want it banned altogether, but then you come across like smokers should be hidden from view...like we're lepers or something.

Your kids are in a park, and someone just lights up around your children, if they didn't know..request they put it out...if they did know...first time might be out of force of habit...more then that...they don't care. Yeah..I got that...those ppl are assholes...we been over this and I've agreed...hell...if someone does that, try and find his address, then PM it to me..I'll go to his house...knock him out, then walk away while smoking HIS smokes...cuz he's a jackass...

but if someone lights up in a park 40 yards away from your children....or lights up in a park when your not there....I really don't think you really have too much of a right to say anything, as much of an asshole that makes me sound. There are smoking sections in restaurants....your family ever go out to eat phee?? What about the mall?

What if that smoke is what I need to calm me down before I loose it and go blow 8 people's brains out? would you rather let me have that smoke then??

What really pisses me off is that reponsible ppl that smoke are being put in the same group as all the assholes that don't care one way or another. How would you feel if I grouped you with every guy your age that likes to play with his dick in the mall? or group your kids with every mis-behaved, tv-baby-sat child in America?

I don't like being a responsible smoker and having everyone group me with Johnny Doesn'tgiveashyt...

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I find it odd that some people care more about an unborn fetus then living, breathing humans.

kinda like when someone is really good at black n white photography, but isn't very good at all at color (trying to use an analogy that both Beau and he will understand)

how about an art student that studies the great masters....and then puts 5 minutes into his work for an exhibit??

[odims_sphere]

What really pisses me off is that reponsible ppl that smoke are being put in the same group as all the assholes that don't care one way or another. How would you feel if I grouped you with every guy your age that likes to play with his dick in the mall? or group your kids with every mis-behaved, tv-baby-sat child in America?

I don't like being a responsible smoker and having everyone group me with Johnny Doesn'tgiveashyt...

Responsible gun owners are lumped into a group with murders, gang members and common criminals all the time. It happens. Doesn't make it right, but it is a reality. If I choose to own a gun I choose to deal with the restrictions and limitations that come with it. If you choose to smoke, you choose to deal with the restrictions and limitations that come with that.