From a couple of other threads "Gun Contorl"

[phee]

What do you think?

Gun control good? bad? ugly?

Here is what I think:

Guns kill people...

Gun Control and the way that it is implimented in this country is rediculous and silly and doesn't help anyone or anything...

More Guns = More Dead people

Freedom and permission are different...

Canada should not blame their problems on us...

This country has more fire arm freedom then any other country on earth (to my knowledge) and has a more people killed by hand guns (both in volume and per capita) this seems to support the more weapon freedom = more death theory...

more to come

[Guest Game of Chance]

Gun Control and the way that it is implimented in this country is rediculous and silly and doesn't help anyone or anything...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I couldn't agree more. Governments should stay the hell out of its citizens private lives.

[phee]

I couldn't agree more.  Governments should stay the hell out of its citizens private lives.

Yup...

[Rayne]

I have stories ... they aren't pretty.

[phee]

There have been cultures (including in this country) where most of the populous was armed in some way... and they were very violent and full of death, the "If you have a gun they won't try to kill you" argument did not work in these cultures (wild west) basically it taught people to sneak up and ambush instead of doing anything fair....

[Guest Game of Chance]

Murder should be punishable by death. Any infringement by an individual on another individuals rights should carry severe consequences. Those rights include the right to own guns, drugs, or any other "illicit" materials.

[phee]

Murder should be punishable by death.  Any infringement by an individual on another individuals rights should carry severe consequences.  Those rights include the right to own guns, drugs, or any other "illicit" materials.

Death makes more death which makes more death etc...

As far as punishment and gun control goes... I am not sure what the corelation is...

[Scary Guy]

In other words, I like my weapons, and if anyone wants them they can pry them out of my cold dead hands.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It's like the system of checks and balances, no one wants to shoot you if they know you and everyone else in the room will shoot back at them. If they're the only ones armed then they're safe till the people with guns get there (police).

There is also the arguement that not having any guns would make it harder to revolt. Sometimes revolution is necessary when the government gets really facist. Kind of makes it easy for them to walk all over you.

Finally when all guns are outlawed the only people who will have them are the government and criminals, both of which I don't trust.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Its simple. Every man and woman has the right to do as s/he will without infringement by any other man or woman, as long as s/he is not infringing on anyone elses rights. Those rights include gun control. That infringement should result in a punishment that is equivocable with said infringement.

I like owning guns, if nothing else but to defend my person and personal property.

[Guest Game of Chance]

I'm also pro-drug legalization, pro-Choice (abortion), and anti-taxes (other than for infrastructure).

[Scary Guy]

I like owning guns, if nothing else but to defend my person and personal property.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your person yes, your personal property NO, not in any state other than Texas can you do that.

I'm also pro-drug legalization, pro-Choice (abortion), and anti-taxes (other than for infrastructure).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like you

[phee]

Godwin's Law:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.

......

Just wanted to get that out of the way....

And if cultures that had there populations well armed were more peaceful then I would agree with you 100% but this does not seem to be the case...

Also there have been cases where people have killed one another with guns and claimed that they were defending there loved ones and property, when it was just not so (a paticular case in texas where an asian teenager went to the wrong house for a Haloween party and was just to death by the owner and he got off scott free for example).

If everybody were rational then I would agree with the argument... but they are not... people will have issues like greed, and they will also have issues about there own mortality that are not with the norm... they may break into your house and shoot you in the face because they don't worry about being killed, and you defended the right for them to own the weapon that they killed you with...

I like my personal freedoms... a lot.... and the thought of everyone around me (including me) being armed makes me feel anything but free.

[Guest Game of Chance]

I can appreciate where you are coming from (as far as safety issues go), but I would feel a lot less safe if an oppressive regime (imagine that, in the U.S.?) came in and started stripping rights away one by one.

If that were to happen, I would definitely want as many guns as I could get my hands on.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Your person yes, your personal property NO, not in any state other than Texas can you do that.

I like you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Laws aside, human beings should have the right to do so.

Right on. Thx

[phee]

I can appreciate where you are coming from (as far as safety issues go), but I would feel a lot less safe if an oppressive regime (imagine that, in the U.S.?) came in and started stripping rights away one by one. 

If that were to happen, I would definitely want as many guns as I could get my hands on.

Oppressive Regime is a different story... but it would be hard to draw the line somewhere... and the way I look at it... so many people have guns illegally in this country (ie: gun control is a joke) I think that at the moment we are our own oppressive regime...

I have known Militia types and they scare me, because lots of them don't think black people should be in the government at all... So if a well armed group of people do decide to overthrow the government, who will protect us from them...

on 9/11 the people who decided our government was bad, armed themselves and attempted to start a regime change... and I was not too pleased about it

[Rayne]

so many people have guns illegally in this country (ie: gun control is a joke)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second that ... A LOT!!!!

[Guest Game of Chance]

I have known Militia types and they scare me, because lots of them don't think black people should be in the government at all... So if a well armed group of people do decide to overthrow the government, who will protect us from them...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Us.

on 9/11 the people who decided our government was bad, armed themselves and attempted to start a regime change... and I was not too pleased about it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They were acting out because they felt their rights were infringed upon. To some extent, they were correct. I don't agree with the way they acted out, but some major foreign policy changes need to occur before the world gets along.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone of The Stamp Act,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Act_1765

The Sugar Act,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Act

And finally, The Tea Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Act

This country would have never existed without some brave men who woke up to their true freedoms.

[phee]

Us.

They were acting out because they felt their rights were infringed upon.  To some extent, they were correct.  I don't agree with the way they acted out, but some major foreign policy changes need to occur before the world gets along.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone of The Stamp Act,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Act_1765

The Sugar Act,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Act

And finally, The Tea Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Act

This country would have never existed without some brave men who woke up to their true freedoms.

Again economics... and to protest the tea act they were diguised as "savages" so in order to get there "freedom" they had to blame (temporarily) other people that they were oppressing... doesn't sound too brave to me :whistling

I would agree with this if the Native Americans were better armed then they could have successfully fought off our own oppressive government that defends our freedoms so well, at the cost of their land/lives/property... :tear

[Guest Game of Chance]

Again economics...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can be oppresive at times.

and to protest the tea act they were diguised as "savages" so in order to get there "freedom" they had to blame (temporarily) other people that they were oppressing... doesn't sound too brave to me :whistling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You gotta do what you gotta do when it comes to war.

I would agree with this if the Native Americans were better armed then they could have successfully fought off our own oppressive government that defends our freedoms so well, at the cost of their land/lives/property...  :tear

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Native Americans are doing quite well for themselves these days. Federal Settlements for their property have earned them billions. I actually talk to the Federal Agency that manages their money from these settlements. The Office of Trust Funds Management. One of these days we're going to do business.

[Guest Game of Chance]

I couldn't agree more.  Governments should stay the hell out of its citizens private lives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the way...do you realize that you contradicted yourself very early on in this thread...? Not trying to be a dick, but I thought it should be pointed out.

[The_Dark]

Phee... you might want to look into the deaths thing. Both per capita and total. I do believe your in for a shocker when you find what the real numbers are.

Beyond that... I think everyone knows how I feel about gun control.

[phee]

An Opinionated Short Story from Phee:

The Freedom to own Guns:

It was a lush summer evening in the medium sized town of Gunvillia, the country had just gotten rid of the regulations and restrictions on firearms that were previously in place from the nearly oppresive government. Everyone then went to their local Walmarts, Meijiers, Drug Stores, and fruit stands.... They gleefully purchase their handguns, assault rifles, and other forms of personal protection...

They go back to their homes feeling safe and secure, that they now have the confindence that another will not pull a gun on them for fear of being shot themselves, and they can now protect their families and property with confidence, and if the government gets too pushy, they can simply take their firearms and make it right... The town of Gunvilla, and the rest of the country is at peace.

A half an hour later, Bob Bobertsons car breaks down in Gunvilla in a pleasant looking nieghborhood... He then roles his eyes at his own stupidity for not charging up his cellphone... He looks at his Mac 10 thinking I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, he breaths a sigh of peaceful and wonderful relief as he puts it in his pocket, and gets out of his car to see if the person who lives in the house that his car stalled out in front of, would be kind enough to make a phone call on his behalf...

Inside the said house, John Johnson has just had a minor fight with his girlfriend and decides to have a couple of beers in his home, after all it is his right to do so in his own home after all. He looks with pride at his Glock 9 thiniking to himself: I am glad I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive... and feels calm and at peace. He sees on the news that a disturbed serial rapest is on the loose, and thinks again: have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive.

John Johnson then looks out his window and sees a black man (Bob Bobertson) approaching his house, and he sees the handle of a weapon in this mans pocket... "The rapest in the area was black" he thinks "And my god in this twilight with a couple of beers, that person comming up my walkway sure looks like the bastard, but I need to be sure" John Johnson pulls his weapon "just in case" and opens his door...

Bob Bobertson sees the door fling open and the man standing their with his gun drawn says: "Are you that black rapest? ANSWER ME!!!" Bob Bobertson says "FUCK" and draws his weapon and looks for cover... Both men share in the thought: I am glad that I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive.

Shots are fired from both parties and Bob Bobertson Is wounded (but for the sake of the story) not killed... John Johnson after realizing the situation, seeing that this man is nopt the rapest, then takes Bob Bobertson to the hospital, feeling guilty, but Bob Bobertson is strangely understanding and say in unison: "I am glad that I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive"

All returns to the peace of before...

Except accross the street where in the gun battle they seemed to no see young Mary Marison age five, playing hopsctotch... The failed to see 2 of John Johnsons rounds and 1 of Bob Bobertsons rounds enter her chest killing her... But Marys father did see this, and thinks to himself: "wait a second, I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, and OMG this can't happen!!!"

He then opens fire with his AK47 on Bob Bobertson and John Johnson upon the return from the hospital... killing them both... "Now that is over with" he thinks to himself, and begins the process of mourning his daughter... And all was peaceful again.

Accept on the way to the hospital Bob Bobertson had called his wife on John Johnsons cell phone, and explained to her the situation, and that everything was OK... and now that Bob Bobertson was dead over this stupid misunderstanding, Mrs. Bobertson thinks to herself: "But I have the freedom to protect myself, my property and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, right?" She then calles up her relatives and tells them to grab their Uzi's and get over to her place for some punishment and justice"

Mrs. Robertson and family then storms the Marison house killing Mr. and Mrs. Marison shortly after they got back from the funeral... Everything was then back to normal and it's peaceful self...

Accept the Marisons wern't to happy about what happened to their family and they think to themselves: "We have the freedom to protect myself my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, and that was simply too harsh" One of the Marisons then says: "You know we could call the police or something" They stop and think this is a good idea...

The police show up at the Bobertsons door to ask a few questions... Now Billy Bobertson has been oppressed by a couple of bad cops before, and now that he has M60 he thinks: "I have the freedom to protect myself, my property and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive." The cops show up and one of them reaches into his pocket for a peace of gum and Billy Bobertson "Lights him up"... a gun battle ensues in the nieghborhood... The people all thinking: " Gosh it is a good thing Ihave the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive"

Carl Carlson is lying in the street bleeding and thinks "I am a passivist. I don't believe in guns... how the fuck did this bull shit happen?... it kind of reminds me of World War One with the alliance system in Europe and how that war started, when the Duke..." He is cut short by a car running over him driven by another passivist trying to get the Fuck out of the area.

Rich Richardson then notices that a lot of his employees that live in that area are being killed in the conflict and sends his heavily armed task force in to "keep the peace" so that he can stop with the workmans comp bullshit and the huge cost of hireing new people thinking: " I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, and damn this is hurting my business/property."

A few days, deaths, and bombs later in Foriegna, Pierre Frenchie is listening to the story on the news and accindently cuts off Frank Foriegnburg while driving... they both reach for their guns... realize they don't have any, share a laugh and a cophee and continue on to work.

In the not so nearby country of Fuckthewestastan, the current dictator is very happy that we are doing gods work for him and rapes a peasant.

A few years later, people are in their privat communes, half starving and with many dead in their family in a more or less civil war for the last few years, all heavily armed thinking: "I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive... and I am glad this whole I am armed you are armed so we leave each other the fuck alone thing worked out so well for us... who needs history? who needs to understand the flawed and violent nature of the human race? we have our freedom, and the government didn't interfere with our 'private' lives."

A native american living in Canada thinks: "figures"

And they all lived happily ever after...

Thanks for reading...

I know that this is an extreme exageration, and that I am over simplifying but I think the point is clear. And I also know that most people have already made up their minds and this won't change that.

I hope Critter will be proud of it's length.

[Guest Game of Chance]

An (far fetched, but maybe not that far fetched) opinionated short story by Game of Chance

January 1, 2006: The U.S. bans all privately owned firearms. They go door to door to collect any weapons that citizens may own.

March 1, 2006: an oppresive regime from within the Pentagon staged a successful coup-de-tat. They use the U.S. Military against itself. Since the citizens no longer had any firearms to defend themselves, they were helpless. Woman were raped and children were murdered. All of us were slaves.

The End.

[Scary Guy]

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posses arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." -Adolph Hitler 1938

[Guest Game of Chance]

An Opinionated Short Story from Phee:

The Freedom to own Guns:

It was a lush summer evening in the medium sized town of Gunvillia, the country had just gotten rid of the regulations and restrictions on firearms that were previously in place from the nearly oppresive government. Everyone then went to their local Walmarts, Meijiers, Drug Stores, and fruit stands.... They gleefully purchase their handguns, assault rifles, and other forms of personal protection...

They go back to their homes feeling safe and secure, that they now have the confindence that another will not pull a gun on them for fear of being shot themselves, and they can now protect their families and property with confidence, and if the government gets too pushy, they can simply take their firearms and make it right... The town of Gunvilla, and the rest of the country is at peace.

A half an hour later, Bob Bobertsons car breaks down in Gunvilla in a pleasant looking nieghborhood... He then roles his eyes at his own stupidity for not charging up his cellphone... He looks at his Mac 10 thinking I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, he breaths a sigh of peaceful and wonderful relief as he puts it in his pocket, and gets out of his car to see if the person who lives in the house that his car stalled out in front of, would be kind enough to make a phone call on his behalf...

Inside the said house, John Johnson has just had a minor fight with his girlfriend and decides to have a couple of beers in his home, after all it is his right to do so in his own home after all. He looks with pride at his Glock 9 thiniking to himself:  I am glad I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive... and feels calm and at peace. He sees on the news that a disturbed serial rapest is on the loose, and thinks again:  have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive.

John Johnson then looks out his window and sees a black man (Bob Bobertson) approaching his house, and he sees the handle of a weapon in this mans pocket... "The rapest in the area was black" he thinks "And my god in this twilight with a couple of beers, that person comming up my walkway sure looks like the bastard, but I need to be sure" John Johnson pulls his weapon "just in case" and opens his door...

Bob Bobertson sees the door fling open and the man standing their with his gun drawn says: "Are you that black rapest? ANSWER ME!!!" Bob Bobertson says "FUCK" and draws his weapon and looks for cover... Both men share in the thought:  I am glad that I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive.

Shots are fired from both parties and Bob Bobertson Is wounded (but for the sake of the story) not killed... John Johnson after realizing the situation, seeing that this man is nopt the rapest, then takes Bob Bobertson to the hospital, feeling guilty, but Bob Bobertson is strangely understanding and say in unison: "I am glad that I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive"

All returns to the peace of before...

Except accross the street where in the gun battle they seemed to no see young Mary Marison age five, playing hopsctotch... The failed to see 2 of John Johnsons rounds and 1 of Bob Bobertsons rounds enter her chest killing her... But Marys father did see this, and thinks to himself: "wait a second, I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, and OMG this can't happen!!!"

He then opens fire with his AK47 on Bob Bobertson and John Johnson upon the return from the hospital... killing them both... "Now that is over with" he thinks to himself, and begins the process of mourning his daughter... And all was peaceful again.

Accept on the way to the hospital Bob Bobertson had called his wife on John Johnsons cell phone, and explained to her the situation, and that everything was OK... and now that Bob Bobertson was dead over this stupid misunderstanding, Mrs. Bobertson thinks to herself: "But I have the freedom to protect myself, my property and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, right?" She then calles up her relatives and tells them to grab their Uzi's and get over to her place for some punishment and justice"

Mrs. Robertson and family then storms the Marison house killing Mr. and Mrs. Marison shortly after they got back from the funeral... Everything was then back to normal and it's peaceful self...

Accept the Marisons wern't to happy about what happened to their family and they think to themselves: "We have the freedom to protect myself my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, and that was simply too harsh" One of the Marisons then says: "You know we could call the police or something" They stop and think this is a good idea...

The police show up at the Bobertsons door to ask a few questions... Now Billy Bobertson has been oppressed by a couple of bad cops before, and now that he has M60 he thinks: "I have the freedom to protect myself, my property and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive." The cops show up and one of them reaches into his pocket for a peace of gum and Billy Bobertson "Lights him up"... a gun battle ensues in the nieghborhood... The people all thinking: " Gosh it is a good thing Ihave the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive"

Carl Carlson is lying in the street bleeding and thinks "I am a passivist. I  don't believe in guns... how the fuck did this bull shit happen?... it kind of reminds me of World War One with the alliance system in Europe and how that war started, when the Duke..." He is cut short by a car running over him driven by another passivist trying to get the Fuck out of the area.

Rich Richardson then notices that a lot of his employees that live in that area are being killed in the conflict and sends his heavily armed task force in to "keep the peace" so that he can stop with the workmans comp bullshit and the huge cost of hireing new people thinking: " I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive, and damn this is hurting my business/property."

A few days, deaths, and bombs later in Foriegna, Pierre Frenchie is listening to the story on the news and accindently cuts off Frank Foriegnburg while driving... they both reach for their guns... realize they don't have any, share a laugh and a cophee and continue on to work.

In the not so nearby country of Fuckthewestastan, the current dictator is very happy that we are doing gods work for him and rapes a peasant.

A few years later, people are in their privat communes, half starving and with many dead in their family in a more or less civil war for the last few years, all heavily armed thinking: "I have the freedom to protect myself, my property, and family from others who wish to do me harm and I can help overthrow the government if they get too oppressive... and I am glad this whole I am armed you are armed so we leave each other the fuck alone thing worked out so well for us... who needs history? who needs to understand the flawed and violent nature of the human race? we have our freedom, and the government didn't interfere with our 'private' lives."

A native american living in Canada thinks: "figures"

And they all lived happily ever after...

Thanks for reading...

I know that this is an extreme exageration, and that I am over simplifying but I think the point is clear. And I also know that most people have already made up their minds and this won't change that.

I hope Critter will be proud of it's length.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you live in a different country than me? Guns are (for the most part) legal to own (for now) and I don't see anything like this.

Maybe you should consider moving out of Ypsi? :laughing