From a couple of other threads "Gun Contorl"

[Guest Game of Chance]

I don't get it..

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I don't like being forced (through taxes) to pay for things that aren't necessary to MY life. If you want to pay for healthcare and college for your daughter, that's great. But I don't want to be forced.

[Blackmail]

I know that a lot of people in this country ar taxaphobes... but yes I wouldn't mind the income tax rate if I could get free health care, collage, and saftety for my kid... that seems like a no brainer to me...

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ok now we're getting off topic.

free health care has tons of problems too phee, lots of canadians actually come here and pay for health care to avoid the pitfalls of universal health care.

taxes are stupid in my opinion.

[Guest Game of Chance]

ok now we're getting off topic.

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I don't think we're off topic at all. This whole thread started as a debate over personal freedoms.

[Blackmail]

I don't think we're off topic at all.  This whole thread started as a debate over personal freedoms.

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ok then.

[phee]

What are impersonal freedoms?

[Guest Game of Chance]

What are impersonal freedoms?

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lol...good question.

[pharoh]

I must say that I have enjoyed this thread since this one has been started. Most ppl who know me on here know I am an established marksmen and a avid collector, I am even thinking of changing my profession to something gun related. So in all honesty this is gonna be one of those never ending threads. I for one think that guns themselves are tools like everything else, how you use them is up to the individual, now yes it's easy to go and pick up an unregistered piece, give me cash and I'll be able to get you what you want in the matter of a few days. And yes the Act alone of murder is quite easy with a gun, but the chances of you being traced is alot more than the chances of say a knife attack. Today's technology can pinpoint what caliber, the type of gun, how far away and the persons exact location....Ballistics is a very cool thing lol. however I can take a gun I own and make it never traceable to me after using it to kill someone.

Now where I am going with this here is that like someone said earlier, it's all about checks and balances. Your not gonna get rid of guns, the people will not allow that to happen. You have to rely on the responsibility of others. Just to own a pistol in this state (legally) is quite a chore, and if your are one of those who believes they need a CCW (I think they are a waste of time) then you have to be educated to get it. Although the system is kinda flawed, I still believe that it is fair.

Once people accept that guns aren't going away, and stop crying and bitching about it. We will be better off. Instead of bitching be proactive and come up with logical solutions, or you cries will go unheard.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

This is true... and I do appreciate the hunting aspect of it... but perhaps people should pass a psychological exam before getting a fire arm

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im not directing this at you so much as framing it in a way that I know will hit home... "perhaps people should pass a psychological exam before having a child" Where do the psycological exams end? Who gets to decide what we have them for? Who decides who takes them? What happens if you fail? how about failing the parent one? If you fail it, do you get sterilized?

Stuff to ponder...

NOTE! I am not saying in any way that I dont agree with Phee being a parent or anything like that. I just thought I would comment on this since I konw its a right that matters to him very much and i want to hear his opinion on it.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

O.k., here's one for the Darwinists amongst us. How about the advancement of stronger mentality over weaker? The stronger being those who can see that "guns kill people" and "some people are stupid and use guns for bad things" so "we stronger mental people need to control the stupid people by making laws so they can't hurt themselves - or us".

Hm?

Or maybe it's stronger EMOTIONAL capacity? Why does "survival of the fittest" have to mean just physically or whomever can find a job the fastest? Maybe evolution is leading us towards more strength emotionally, and therefore, the stronger amongst us want to make sure we don't have to suffer the emotional loss of people killed by guns.

Stream of consciousness. Forgive me.

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I think you might be assuming that it is stronger to say that your own safety is the responsiblity of laws (to protect you from guns).

All laws by nature are after the fact. They punish for doing somthing... they do not prevent anything in and of themselves. Some people refrain from breaking laws due to fear of punishment, but the law itself prevents nothing.

I would like to point out that no other type of animal on the planet assumes that someone else (complete stranger... possibly with a badge) will protect them. Thats why animals have sharp teeth and claws or other defenses.

Ever see 2001? Guns are just the newest stick/leg bone. Just wait until some really smart hairless monkey comes up with something better.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

I have stories ... they aren't pretty.

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Me too... one of my best friends got a nice pair of holes in his head in '92. I have tried to avoid the same mistakes he made.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

Godwin's Law:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.

......

I dont consider it poor form at all to raise such a comparison at all. Its only poor form in the opinion of people who can not come up with a retort. Hitler was infact only for gun control when applied to sub/non humans and dissidents. He actually had several of his own. There is a nice debate running right now about a special gold plated walther PP located in canada... any way, You should look into which politicians/celebrities are for gun control and how they are protected in real life. Its one of those "Do as I say, Not as I do" situations. Remember Ted Kennedy's body guard getting caught with a Mac-10 and two handguns in DC.... Teddy Bear needed them for protection....

One parting statement:

The last thing we need to do is forget or ignore what the Nazis said, advocated, or did. Even if we handed out guns freely in the usa, we would not end up with violence on the scale of that perpetrated by the Nazi regime (I suspect it would go the opposite direction actually.... things would probably stay just the way they are)

Our gun violence/death rate is more linked to poverty/inequality, urbanizaton+ breakdown of parenting/socilization, and drug issues rather than the availibilty of firearms. I would give finland as an example. They have several million machineguns in circulation there. more than 1/2 of said machineguns are unregistered and could easily be used for crimes... yet they are not. Same goes for Switzerland. Its not because the guns are there.... its the differences in how some people are raized.

[The_Dark]

I would like to point out, as it was brought up...

The Police are not there to protect you. That is a myth. The Supreme Court decided this case already. The Police are there to enforce the Law, They do not have to protect anyone in the process.

With that in mind... I'll keep my guns.

[Rayne]

I would like to point out, as it was brought up...

The Police are not there to protect you. That is a myth. The Supreme Court decided this case already. The Police are there to enforce the Law, They do not have to protect anyone in the process.

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So much for "To Protect and Serve" then, eh?

... I'll still avoid a gun if I can help it though.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

So much for "To Protect and Serve" then, eh?

... I'll still avoid a gun if I can help it though.

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you could always try the Skunk approach.... if someone tries to harm/rob/kidnapp you, try and make smell so bad that they will run away. Everyone knows that it works for skunks.... and we have the technology/society that allows us to purchase ours rather than have to produced it biologically.

I suppose if someone does not have the extra money to spend on that, there is always the option of cabbage and beans.