Gaza

[phee]

To be fair though

[Reaper]

Kill them all. God will know his own. -Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux 1209 a.d.

[Msterbeau]

Kill them all. God will know his own. -Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux 1209 a.d.

What if there is no god? And what's so different about fanatic Muslims wanting us all dead as compared to your statement?

[Reaper]

What if there is no god? And what's so different about fanatic Muslims wanting us all dead as compared to your statement?

It's not my statement. Just threw it out there. Let them find out if they are so willing to kill each other over these thousands of years. Why not just end all to end all? They will never come to a peaceful resolution because they don't know how to. They have done this for their whole history. Whats going to stop them now when its built into their blood?

[candyman]

Its really odd but from recent statements by a few soldiers that have been training Israels troops it seems that almost all religious goals are gone there. Not hard to see considering there is really no religion in religion anymore. These people just want their little piece of land and to be let well enough alone.

Like I said before these people have been through some really tough shit. I really don't think that I need to give details on the tough time of the Jewish people. Hell, they have been allowing other religions into Jerusalem to visit their holy places and in return one of these religion sees fit to blow shit up and kill people when they get in.

On a side note I would like to say that this war has brought about some great military strategies and some new weapons systems that are meant to be effective while keeping the casualties down. The price of Ak's has dropped quite rapidly because of this which really fucked over my profits but oh well.

[candyman]

It's not my statement. Just threw it out there. Let them find out if they are so willing to kill each other over these thousands of years. Why not just end all to end all? They will never come to a peaceful resolution because they don't know how to. They have done this for their whole history. Whats going to stop them now when its built into their blood?

Why has nobody mentioned the Kurds? They are the same people, they have oil fields, and they practice Islam. They are the perfect example of what the middle east should and could be. They have a strong government, they do the right thing with the oil profits, and they are only Muslim with no other defining name that would cause them to fight one another. I guess those are reasons why all the other Muslim countries are trying to destroy them...they would ruin all the fun. Oh and remember when Saddam used those weapons of mass destruction on the Kurds killing thousands in the Baathist "Anfal" campaign? When the Kurds looked to Iran for support Saddam got scared and gasses them leaving thousands dead with chemical weapons similar to those made with fertilizer. There were all those pictures of dead children still holding lunch pails and people still in shops holding clothing or other products. And now people, especially middle eastern countries, are claiming that none of them attacked the Kurds...yeah...so all these years you have been documenting your war against them and now there are Baathist documents that talk about the gassing and you didn't do it?

The sad thing is that people often give up hope of even coming to a peaceful end. We can and we will but its going to be hell along the way. Yeah, people say that alot but really the only thing standing in the way of this is getting the "governments" out of the way. The majority of the people hate the shit that is going on because they know just as well as everyone else that this government/religion thing over there has turned into the worlds largest bank/pile of shit. You know...its funny how they say that Iraq hates us when they have no proof of it. Sure, we are still being attacked and so are the people but...these insurgents are not from Iraq.

Maybe if people really, truly wanted to help people they would stop taking their lives in countries like ours for granted and would stop to look for just one second at the lives of the average people in the middle east.

[Msterbeau]

It's not my statement.

Many have expressed the same thing...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

What if there is no god? And what's so different about fanatic Muslims wanting us all dead as compared to your statement?

If there is no God, what Sin/great wrong has been committed?

I mean, if the source of our Morals is not "God" then the source of our Morals is "The People" and if a majorty of "the people" decide to wipe the humans off that particular part of the world? How has anything "wrong" been done?

[Rev.Reverence]

If there is no God, what Sin/great wrong has been committed?

I mean, if the source of our Morals is not "God" then the source of our Morals is "The People" and if a majorty of "the people" decide to wipe the humans off that particular part of the world? How has anything "wrong" been done?

...dude.....GOOD F-IN' POINT!

[phee]

If there is no God, what Sin/great wrong has been committed?

I mean, if the source of our Morals is not "God" then the source of our Morals is "The People" and if a majorty of "the people" decide to wipe the humans off that particular part of the world? How has anything "wrong" been done?

Gaf = Smart

[Msterbeau]

If there is no God, what Sin/great wrong has been committed?

I mean, if the source of our Morals is not "God" then the source of our Morals is "The People" and if a majorty of "the people" decide to wipe the humans off that particular part of the world? How has anything "wrong" been done?

Just because the majority of people decide something, doesn't mean it's good, just, or otherwise a great idea. The majority could be idiots.

[phee]

Just because the majority of people decide something, doesn't mean it's good, just, or otherwise a great idea. The majority could be idiots.

*phee feels another thread coming on*

Then what does decide what is good, just, or a great idea then if not the majority, and not "God"? I think the point Gaf is making here is not that he approves of the behavior, but more opening it up to the question.

[Msterbeau]

*phee feels another thread coming on*

Then what does decide what is good, just, or a great idea then if not the majority, and not "God"? I think the point Gaf is making here is not that he approves of the behavior, but more opening it up to the question.

I get that. And I get that morality, like many things, is not the same for everyone. But I think there may be a few things - like causing the death of another - that must transcend people's individual morality. I would say this applies to war, as well. Killing to defend your self/country being one thing, starting an unprovoked war, or genocide, quite another.

[Mean Salley]

It's a 3000 year old battle that very few people actually know squat about.

There has never been a country called Palestine. Palestine was the barren land north of Israel that Arab nations sent the banished and unwanted to. Palestine's "proud" heritage is a a land full of petty criminals and disgraced nobles. Before the the fall of the Ottoman empire, it as under the control of the Ottomans, before that, it was "no man's land".

The oldest map known to man of the region is about 3000 years old. Is shows Israel as a land of Jewish city states and Palestine as a wasteland with a caption that can be paraphrased as "Here be bandits and criminals".

so that's where they got the idea of Australia from.

[DarkVampire]

To be fair though

The poster speaks the truth. Religion and one god religions in particular, are the bane of humanity. Humans just might be able to take the next step up if they let go this myth called religion. Have faith in yourself not some made up nonexistent deity.

Now that I said my peaceful part, here's my warmongering part. The entire Middle East can burn for all I care. WW3 will start because of that region. Actually the whole fucking world can burn for all I care. We're all gonna die, might as well get it over and done with.

[phee]

Now that I said my peaceful part, here's my warmongering part. The entire Middle East can burn for all I care. WW3 will start because of that region. Actually the whole fucking world can burn for all I care. We're all gonna die, might as well get it over and done with.

*checks* Yep we are on a goth board aren't we...

[Rev.Reverence]

The poster speaks the truth. Religion and one god religions in particular, are the bane of humanity. Humans just might be able to take the next step up if they let go this myth called religion. Have faith in yourself not some made up nonexistent deity.

Now that I said my peaceful part, here's my warmongering part. The entire Middle East can burn for all I care. WW3 will start because of that region. Actually the whole fucking world can burn for all I care. We're all gonna die, might as well get it over and done with.

Yay! Nihilism!

[DarkVampire]

YIN/YANG

[Rev.Reverence]

YIN/YANG

Cost of sex(life)=death.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Just because the majority of people decide something, doesn't mean it's good, just, or otherwise a great idea. The majority could be idiots.

Your point is? In a Godless universe, the majority decides what is "good, just or otherwise", all else is a dictatorship. Which means whom ever can subjigate the populace. Who is to say the "strongest" is the smartest. You can't have it both ways. You live in a free society where the majority rules (hopefully with minorty stop gates) or you live in a dictatorship with no say at all.

Socio-political Morals are so much easyer when an omnipresent, omnipotent and benevolent being decides "right" and "wrong".

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I get that. And I get that morality, like many things, is not the same for everyone. But I think there may be a few things - like causing the death of another - that must transcend people's individual morality. I would say this applies to war, as well. Killing to defend your self/country being one thing, starting an unprovoked war, or genocide, quite another.

But who decides what trancends and what does not? If some act trancends... who decides if it is good or bad?

You are thinking in circles.

[Msterbeau]

Your point is? In a Godless universe, the majority decides what is "good, just or otherwise", all else is a dictatorship. Which means whom ever can subjigate the populace. Who is to say the "strongest" is the smartest. You can't have it both ways. You live in a free society where the majority rules (hopefully with minorty stop gates) or you live in a dictatorship with no say at all.

Socio-political Morals are so much easyer when an omnipresent, omnipotent and benevolent being decides "right" and "wrong".

My point is quantity does not = quality. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Msterbeau]

But who decides what trancends and what does not? If some act trancends... who decides if it is good or bad?

You are thinking in circles.

I'm not thinking in circles. I'm thinking idealistically. Life is precious. I don't think there's a society on earth that doesn't celebrate the birth of a child. What more do we need to know?

[phee]

I'm not thinking in circles. I'm thinking idealistically. Life is precious. I don't think there's a society on earth that doesn't celebrate the birth of a child. What more do we need to know?

Life is precious to some... but what if the majority wants someone or some group of people dead?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I'm not thinking in circles. I'm thinking idealistically. Life is precious. I don't think there's a society on earth that doesn't celebrate the birth of a child. What more do we need to know?

Yet here we are, in a real world.. not an ideal. We have to deal with the consequecnes of not only our actions but our inactions.

In direct response... in some sociatys the birth of a girl is not celebrated at all. A child born with any defect is not celebrated at all. How do you explain, in our loving society, the high rate (300% increase since 1970) of abortion if life is so precious and cherished?