Sarah Palin's Speech

[Rev.Reverence]

Ofcourse.

Just don't expect everyone to agree with it or see your reasoning behind it as anything more than bigotry.

I do not recall ever saying that you had to agree with me...

Oh yes... just because you perceive something... does not make it so...

NONE of this excuses you attempting to compare my point of view (opinion) to being a Concentration Camp Officer.... that is some low shit dude...

[Oh_My_Goth]

Ofcourse.

Just don't expect everyone to agree with it or see your reasoning behind it as anything more than bigotry.

When did he say he expected people to agree?????

It seems to Me, that you can't handle others opinions.....

[sass_in_the_pants]

Okay perfectly maybe not the right choice of words but they (kids) were getting exercise and being fed

That's what HE said, too! Ha!

[taysteewonderbunny]

There are many quotes from the last few years where she says she advocates teaching the use of contraception along side abstinence.

She thinks abstinence is the best route for kids to go and if they can't keep it in their pants... contraception.

Okay. I am confused because plan a) abstinence until maturity (or marriage, maybe, but that doesn't always require maturity), plan b) clear, detailed information about risks of sexually transmitted infections and information on all available forms of contraception is Planned Parenthood's stance on the issue and is not (but is actually anthetical to) abstinence only sex education.

So, what I want to know is, this bit about Palin supporting abstinence ONLY sex education (the ONLY not just implies that abstinence before marriage is taught exclusive of other methods of birth control, but IS just that by definition) a lie? What is this questionnaire of which you speak? And how was "Palin supports Abstinence Only' construed from it? Has Palin changed her position? Or is she progressive enough to recognize that while one's religious beliefs may dictate what is taught in one's own home, it shouldn't preclude a more comprehensive education for students of public schools, especially when one method (the more comprehensive one) is clearly more effective.

My outrage has nothing to do with Palin's daughter. Teenage girls, in some varying percentage, get pregnant every year and I do not think that pregnancy should condemn them as pariahs and "sluts". I don't think that it should be the case for Palin's daughter either. What does bother me is the push for abstinence only education in schools, regardless of which candidate backs it, both because it is religiously motivated and because it deprives an at risk population with information and resources that greatly impact their quality of life.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Okay. I am confused because plan a) abstinence until maturity (or marriage, maybe, but that doesn't always require maturity), plan b) clear, detailed information about risks of sexually transmitted infections and information on all available forms of contraception is Planned Parenthood's stance on the issue and is not (but is actually anthetical to) abstinence only sex education.

So, what I want to know is, this bit about Palin supporting abstinence ONLY sex education (the ONLY not just implies that abstinence before marriage is taught exclusive of other methods of birth control, but IS just that by definition) a lie? What is this questionnaire of which you speak? And how was "Palin supports Abstinence Only' construed from it? Has Palin changed her position? Or is she progressive enough to recognize that while one's religious beliefs may dictate what is taught in one's own home, it shouldn't preclude a more comprehensive education for students of public schools, especially when one method (the more comprehensive one) is clearly more effective.

My outrage has nothing to do with Palin's daughter. Teenage girls, in some varying percentage, get pregnant every year and I do not think that pregnancy should condemn them as pariahs and "sluts". I don't think that it should be the case for Palin's daughter either. What does bother me is the push for abstinence only education in schools, regardless of which candidate backs it, both because it is religiously motivated and because it deprives an at risk population with information and resources that greatly impact their quality of life.

here's an article which I thought gave a fairly good explanation of her stance and where the misconception came from.

http://www.latimes.com/news/education/la-n...0,1923582.story

[Rev.Reverence]

here's an article which I thought gave a fairly good explanation of her stance and where the misconception came from.

http://www.latimes.com/news/education/la-n...0,1923582.story

Palin wrote, "Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."

But in August of that year, Palin was asked during a KTOO radio debate if "explicit" programs include those that discuss condoms. Palin said no and called discussions of condoms "relatively benign."

"Explicit means explicit," she said. "No, I'm pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I am not anti-contraception. But, yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don't have a problem with that. That doesn't scare me, so it's something I would support also."

.....very ambiguous.....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I do not recall ever saying that you had to agree with me...

Oh yes... just because you perceive something... does not make it so...

NONE of this excuses you attempting to compare my point of view (opinion) to being a Concentration Camp Officer.... that is some low shit dude...

Didn't say you ever said I had to agree.

Um, Now say that to yourself.

It may be some low shit... but thats how low I rate your opinion on this. If you disliked him for some tangiable realistic reason.. I would be cool with that... you dislike him the look in his eye... and yet, you have NEVER looked in his eye. You have looked at pictures of him... some moving... but you have NEVER looked in his eye.

[taysteewonderbunny]

here's an article which I thought gave a fairly good explanation of her stance and where the misconception came from.

http://www.latimes.com/news/education/la-n...0,1923582.story

Thank you. That WAS helpful. I am baffled as to why she didn't understand where that "explicit" question was leading, but I guess we can't all be suspicious of wording in questionnaires like I am (asking "who wrote this?" "what is their position?" "are these questions fair?" "what is being dichotomized here?" because I think most polls, whether intended for the voting public or politicians running for elected office, are intentionally polemical).

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Dude... if your gonna' call names... at least get it close to the mark...I listen to reason... & am not intolerant... I would like you to quit blowing up my statements...

I'm not into hate...

Or war...

Is that enough to stop your slanderous remarks?

He wants to win this one! He won't back down...

WARMONGERING... is that cool... I don't like him because he is a WARMONGER... who claims to be of th "CHRISTIAN" faith... Christan being a word that means "Christ like"... Christ like? THIS GUY?

That makes him a liar as well...

So, you would rather loose... and have the death toll go through the roof. Do me a favor... go read about the MILLIONS of deaths after we pulled out of Vietnam, after we had all but defeated NV, before they were ready for us to leave. Just to save a few hundred and some MONEY.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

but you have no idea if that is even remotely close to the truth. You have made up your mind, the facts be damned.

You have an opinion and will make up what ever bullshit you have to to justify that position.

So... in this conversation we have found out that you judge people based on thier looks and that you are all knowing when it comes to the private lives of people you have never met based soley on what church they go to.

Way to be open minded and accepting of people different than yourself.

lol...Gaf...Irony is the Pot calling the Kettle Black...and you, sir....are a the blackest of Pots. You have an opinion of Sarah Palin, despite the multitude of facts that prove that she is ill-experienced to run this country.

You yourself have openly admitted to being racist...which is the judgement of someone based on their skin coloration and/or ethnic heritage.

When it comes to judging someone's private life due to their religion...specially when they choose to be as outspoken about it as Palin is....it is very easy to guestimate what their private life is like. I highly doubt that Palin is telling us that "Gods will is a Gas Pipline" and then runs home, fucks 4 guys, eats a roll of quarters, and then does a line of coke.....though the last would explain the statement about our "holy war" and "God-ordered pipeline".

Is it our opinion that makes it seem that she flip flop's more then a pair of sandals are the beach??

Every other day, their find more and more stuff that she is changing views on....it's like the woman has magic glasses or something....I mean...does Sarah Palin have a special "where do I stand on the issues" version of Tic-Tac-Toss?? Cuz it's starting to feel like it.

[taysteewonderbunny]

So, you would rather loose... and have the death toll go through the roof. Do me a favor... go read about the MILLIONS of deaths after we pulled out of Vietnam, after we had all but defeated NV, before they were ready for us to leave. Just to save a few hundred and some MONEY.

lose, not loose. No one has accused me of the latter.

And I seriously think the decision to pull out of Vietnam was more complicated (and the alternative more expensive) than that.

But, really, what I want to say, Gaf and everyone else, is please refrain from name calling. It decides NOTHING. NO AD HOMONYM argumenta PLEASE! We're not in a myspace forum, after all. Your mother could be spot on lookalike for Hitler, and you could still be right.

[hunhee]

Very good point Troy which is why I think it may have been a ploy to get the gender vote. The speech was very confident and her body language came across well, but to me she came across almost too strong, almost cocky about everything. I saw confidence, but no humility which sort of bothered me.

The problem (and I know I'll probably get shit for this) is that women have to be more fierce than men in a male arena. I say this from experience, there aren't that many women in my field, so I have to know more, and be better at my job than most men in my field because they don't believe a 5'4 asian american woman can do their man-job. It's the stereotype that we have to overcome. It may be sexist, but it's the truth.

She comes across as confident because she HAS to be confident and show no signs of weakness, the press would have a field day with it. Look at what they're doing with her prego daughter, like you can control 100% what your children do. You can't, you just hope that when your kids go out, they hear your voice in their head when something is amiss.. sometimes that voice doesn't ring loud enough, but I'm proud that she didn't turn her back on her daughter, but then again, I think her daughter getting married is the absolute WRONG thing at her young age, but *shrugs* she'll get a divorce when it doesn't work out. If not, doomed to live a very dull constrictive life with someone she probably isn't in love with.

Wow take a damn chill pill. First of all never said Palin didn't do any mud slinging, I just stated that I'm fucking sick of it. As for her daughter getting pregeant, who fucking cares, I mean seriously at least she's taking responsibility for her actions instead of being a shitty mom. Shit her and the father are getting married, so in my eyes even though she made a mistake and didn't use protection, she's showing her maturity and owning up to what happend. And just let me say even though politically Palin hasn't kept tabs on the war doesn't mean she hasn't personally.

As for the Hitler picture, I'm rather offended since my grandmother lost her father and all her uncles in WWII because Hitler said fight or we'll kill your children. Comparing anyone to Nazi Germany is ignorant and in my eyes makes you seem like a pretty shitty person overall.

What makes you think that having a kid as a kid isn't being a shitty mom? Come on, how many stupid choices did you make when you were under 20? I KNOW I made some at 20 that I'd be ashamed to admit, and that's 3 more years of maturity under my belt.

I'm just saying that a person my age (32) is way more well equipt to handle children and raising them than a child of 17 (again I'm not saying it can't be done, and that it can't be done well, it's just the choices aren't as vaired and the maturity isn't there).

I do not like Obama any more than you... I just despise McCain (looks evil) & found many hypocritic holes (no pun intended) in Palin.

Are you forgetting that McCain was a prisoner of war, and he was tortured every day he was in captivity.. and (if you believe in a soul) can you honestly believe that he would survive without creepy eyes (dark soul) or mixed up psychologically? and if he could, wouldn't that make him even MORE fucked up? Hmm.. lets think about that for a moment.. If there's something dark and heinous about McCain's eyes, it's most likely have to do with his past experiences.

Do you know how many parents don't tell their kids about contraceptives and the majority of the time it has nothing to do with religion. It's because parents are ignorant to the fact their kids are growing up, or they just don't know how to talk about sex with their kids. And in 2008 a teenager doesn't need to hear it from their parents on where to get condoms or the pill since it's talked about among their peers as well as being adveritised by planned parenthood and shit. Don't put it on Palin because her daughter and the boyfriend were to dumb to go to the store and pick up a box of condoms.

More like really loving parents can't bring themselves to realize that their babies (that's how they'll always see their kids) are growing up. They can't bring themselves to think that their kids are reaching puberty and they have to eventually have "the talk" with them, and that there's this really cool thing out there called sex, and that they don't believe you will ever be mature enough or old enough to even handle the ramifications of having sex in the first place, both emotionally and psychologically not to mention physically. Also, with this gift comes great responsibility (*coughs* spiderman *coughs*) because not only can you mess up some wonderful opportunities, by getting knocked up (young) but there are really creepy scary things out there called STDs.. I don't know about you guys, but I think this would be the hardest conversation for me to have as a parent, and I'm NOT a parent. *takes deep breath to stop from hyperventilating*

I certainly respect you parents out there, but I definitely don't envy you, not in this day and age.

I think he's evil... not just by the look of his eye... he is covering up something, I am sure of it.

I am alowed to have an occasional opinion, right?

You're more than welcome to have your opinion on a belief or feeling, but doesn't mean said belief and feelings are correct or based on hard evidence and facts.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Didn't say you ever said I had to agree.

Um, Now say that to yourself.

It may be some low shit... but thats how low I rate your opinion on this. If you disliked him for some tangiable realistic reason.. I would be cool with that... you dislike him the look in his eye... and yet, you have NEVER looked in his eye. You have looked at pictures of him... some moving... but you have NEVER looked in his eye.

I don't like McCain because I know he is hiding something....25 years in politics and you NEVER had ANYTHING that can be deemed a scandel....not even ONE......bullshyt.

[Rev.Reverence]

Didn't say you ever said I had to agree.

Um, Now say that to yourself.

It may be some low shit... but thats how low I rate your opinion on this. If you disliked him for some tangiable realistic reason.. I would be cool with that... you dislike him the look in his eye... and yet, you have NEVER looked in his eye. You have looked at pictures of him... some moving... but you have NEVER looked in his eye.

...a picture contains a thousand words..

I have seen enough to formulate my ADULT opinion... I have also heard him directly contradict himself... to PANDER the people.

[Fin]

So, you would rather loose... and have the death toll go through the roof. Do me a favor... go read about the MILLIONS of deaths after we pulled out of Vietnam, after we had all but defeated NV, before they were ready for us to leave. Just to save a few hundred and some MONEY.

See Gaf, this is the kind of argument that digs under the skin.

McCain, though he seems a capable person, voted to go to war. Obama voted against it. Now we are in the midst of one of the greatest & bloodiest blunders in U.S. history.

No, there is no immediate withdrawl possible. But admitting the mistake is step one--McCain hasn't come close to that. Nor does he seem to have any notion of leaving that area. Since when does admitting a mistake make you a weaker leader? I would have far greater respect for McCain if he would just own up to putting our troops in harm's way as a blunder. That I could respect. Alas, I am still waiting.

[Rev.Reverence]

I certainly respect you parents out there, but I definitely don't envy you, not in this day and age.

You're more than welcome to have your opinion on a belief or feeling, but doesn't mean said belief and feelings are correct or based on hard evidence and facts.

We did cover this...

[Rev.Reverence]

See Gaf, this is the kind of argument that digs under the skin.

McCain, though he seems a capable person, voted to go to war. Obama voted against it. Now we are in the midst of one of the greatest & bloodiest blunders in U.S. history.

No, there is no immediate withdrawl possible. But admitting the mistake is step one--McCain hasn't come close to that. Nor does he seem to have any notion of leaving that area. Since when does admitting a mistake make you a weaker leader? I would have far greater respect for McCain if he would just own up to putting our troops in harm's way as a blunder. That I could respect. Alas, I am still waiting.

HA! I was trying to get to that too...

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

The problem (and I know I'll probably get shit for this) is that women have to be more fierce than men in a male arena. I say this from experience, there aren't that many women in my field, so I have to know more, and be better at my job than most men in my field because they don't believe a 5'4 asian american woman can do their man-job. It's the stereotype that we have to overcome. It may be sexist, but it's the truth.

She comes across as confident because she HAS to be confident and show no signs of weakness, the press would have a field day with it. Look at what they're doing with her prego daughter, like you can control 100% what your children do. You can't, you just hope that when your kids go out, they hear your voice in their head when something is amiss.. sometimes that voice doesn't ring loud enough, but I'm proud that she didn't turn her back on her daughter, but then again, I think her daughter getting married is the absolute WRONG thing at her young age, but *shrugs* she'll get a divorce when it doesn't work out. If not, doomed to live a very dull constrictive life with someone she probably isn't in love with.

What makes you think that having a kid as a kid isn't being a shitty mom? Come on, how many stupid choices did you make when you were under 20? I KNOW I made some at 20 that I'd be ashamed to admit, and that's 3 more years of maturity under my belt.

I'm just saying that a person my age (32) is way more well equipt to handle children and raising them than a child of 17 (again I'm not saying it can't be done, and that it can't be done well, it's just the choices aren't as vaired and the maturity isn't there).

Are you forgetting that McCain was a prisoner of war, and he was tortured every day he was in captivity.. and (if you believe in a soul) can you honestly believe that he would survive without creepy eyes (dark soul) or mixed up psychologically? and if he could, wouldn't that make him even MORE fucked up? Hmm.. lets think about that for a moment.. If there's something dark and heinous about McCain's eyes, it's most likely have to do with his past experiences.

More like really loving parents can't bring themselves to realize that their babies (that's how they'll always see their kids) are growing up. They can't bring themselves to think that their kids are reaching puberty and they have to eventually have "the talk" with them, and that there's this really cool thing out there called sex, and that they don't believe you will ever be mature enough or old enough to even handle the ramifications of having sex in the first place, both emotionally and psychologically not to mention physically. Also, with this gift comes great responsibility (*coughs* spiderman *coughs*) because not only can you mess up some wonderful opportunities, by getting knocked up (young) but there are really creepy scary things out there called STDs.. I don't know about you guys, but I think this would be the hardest conversation for me to have as a parent, and I'm NOT a parent. *takes deep breath to stop from hyperventilating*

I certainly respect you parents out there, but I definitely don't envy you, not in this day and age.

You're more than welcome to have your opinion on a belief or feeling, but doesn't mean said belief and feelings are correct or based on hard evidence and facts.

ok...how about "I don't like having to pay for Bristol Palin to have it 20 times better then any other teen parent"?? You don't think Palin will slip some shyt into a bill to make sure that Palin has a nice fat nest egg for when that baby comes?....I'm not sure even the Joker could laugh so hard at that.

[Rev.Reverence]

I don't like McCain because I know he is hiding something....25 years in politics and you NEVER had ANYTHING that can be deemed a scandel....not even ONE......bullshyt.

There's ANOTHER "reason" to not like the guy... it seems to me... that he did not; not get caught at anything because his party Brothers were covering him for all these years... SO THEY COULD DO SOMETHING DEVIOUS!

So... either I'm right... something is up... or I'm just paranoid...

see ya's on th' 'morrow!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

See Gaf, this is the kind of argument that digs under the skin.

McCain, though he seems a capable person, voted to go to war. Obama voted against it. Now we are in the midst of one of the greatest & bloodiest blunders in U.S. history.

No, there is no immediate withdrawl possible. But admitting the mistake is step one--McCain hasn't come close to that. Nor does he seem to have any notion of leaving that area. Since when does admitting a mistake make you a weaker leader? I would have far greater respect for McCain if he would just own up to putting our troops in harm's way as a blunder. That I could respect. Alas, I am still waiting.

I see your point, and I can understand that stand point, but I can not help but to point out this is NOT the bloodiest anything in US history. Not when it comes to military action. The whole Native American Massacre fills that role. I also don't consider it a blunder yet... I will give that the strategy after the initial phase sucked ass... but in the long run, the US should benefit from this on many levels. It wont be until after it is over and the ripples have settled into the over all world pattern that we will really know if this is a blunder. Also, soldiers need their commanders to believe in what they are doing for them to believe in it. If everyone in the government said this was a mistake... the moral of the troops on the ground would suffer horribly.

[Fin]

I don't like McCain because I know he is hiding something....25 years in politics and you NEVER had ANYTHING that can be deemed a scandel....not even ONE......bullshyt.

Actually, as a member of the "Keating 5" in 1989, McCain was involved in the major congressional scandal of the era.

To be fair, McCain & John Glenn were cleared of improper action but were found to have exercised "poor judgment." But let's face it: Everything one has done as a public official is held up to scrutiny when he/she runs for president.

McCain censured by Senate Ethics Committee, 1989

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't like McCain because I know he is hiding something....25 years in politics and you NEVER had ANYTHING that can be deemed a scandel....not even ONE......bullshyt.

Like Biden?

Corrected... One scandal each...

Biden accused off plagerism and had to drop out of a Presidential race.

McCain accused and found innocent of wrong doing but guilty of having the wrong friends.

[Fin]

I see your point, and I can understand that stand point, but I can not help but to point out this is NOT the bloodiest anything in US history. Not when it comes to military action. The whole Native American Massacre fills that role.

Agree completely. And, of course, the U.S. Civil War.

I also don't consider it a blunder yet... I will give that the strategy after the initial phase sucked ass... but in the long run, the US should benefit from this on many levels. It wont be until after it is over and the ripples have settled into the over all world pattern that we will really know if this is a blunder.

It will be interesting to see how the after-effects are spun in historical textbooks. What we know is that the entire area has been forced into a "power vacuum" that will be difficult to contain. Our military is filling the gap right now, but that cannot go on indefinitely--hence my dissatisfaction with McCain's stance on the issue as of now.

Also, soldiers need their commanders to believe in what they are doing for them to believe in it. If everyone in the government said this was a mistake... the moral of the troops on the ground would suffer horribly.

I agree with that. On the other hand, if the commander-in-chief were to admit the mistake & begin to end the operation & withdraw our troops, I think the greater good would be served & the troops moral could be appropriately buffeted by the fact they had served honorably & fulfilled their duty as they were asked.

[SaGa]

There's ANOTHER "reason" to not like the guy... it seems to me... that he did not; not get caught at anything because his party Brothers were covering him for all these years... SO THEY COULD DO SOMETHING DEVIOUS!

So... either I'm right... something is up... or I'm just paranoid...

see ya's on th' 'morrow!

Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's something big and sinister going on in the world.

Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the universe gets that.

hehe i just watched this a few nights ago

[Oh_My_Goth]

Are you forgetting that McCain was a prisoner of war, and he was tortured every day he was in captivity.. and (if you believe in a soul) can you honestly believe that he would survive without creepy eyes (dark soul) or mixed up psychologically? and if he could, wouldn't that make him even MORE fucked up? Hmm.. lets think about that for a moment.. If there's something dark and heinous about McCain's eyes, it's most likely have to do with his past experiences.

Oh, and I want a psycho running the country.....

Have YOU ever talked to a POW?????

NOT right in the head.....